In the following conversation, I chat with Kit Perkins, who is the co founder and CEO of the company Ergodriven. If you’ve listened to even one of my podcast interviews before, you’ve most likely heard of Ergodriven already, as they are the company that manufactures the Topo Mat, my number one standing mat recommendation for anyone that spends long hours at a standing or a height adjustable workstation.
If you’re unfamiliar with the Topo Mat, Kit and I will briefly discuss what it is and how it works for anybody that hasn’t heard about it yet. And more importantly, why it is an absolutely essential tool for those who want to be more active, energetic and focused at work. But what I’m really excited about introducing you to today is Kit’s new product creation, New Standard Whole Protein.
Best of all, Kit provides you in this interview, the opportunity to try a New Standard practically for free with a 70% discount. And to quickly note, if you didn’t already know, I don’t recommend products because people are sponsoring me, I seek out the best products that I use every day. And then I beg those companies to become sponsors of this program.
So without further ado, my interview with Ergodriven CEO, Kit Perkins…
I'm here today with Kit Perkins, who is the CEO of Ergodriven, otherwise known as the guy that created the Topo Mat. everybody listening knows to Topo Mat, they've been telling me about it for years and years and years, and it's practically become a staple in Edit suites everywhere in my industry. So Kit, it is such a pleasure to have you back on the show today.
Kit Perkins 2:10
Yeah, Zack, it's great to be talking to you again. Thanks for having me.
Zack Arnold 2:13
So I'm excited to talk a little bit more about the Topo Mat for anybody that's not familiar with it. But I'm also really excited to talk about your new venture, which is not just kind of like the standard next step, no pun intended, by the way, because we're talking about standing mats. So just to give a little bit of a preview, you reached out to me, I think maybe it was six months ago or so now, you said I've got this new product, I'm really excited to to get in front of your audience. And my immediate thought was, oh, maybe it's some attachment to a standing desk or some other form of a mat or whatever it might be. They said, Oh, great. What is it? You said? It's protein powder. And I'm like, wait, what, like that doesn't even make any sense. So I have since used it, I become a total believer the way that I am about the topo mat. And we're going to talk about both of these things today just to give the audience a little bit of a preview. But I want to start with the basics. I want to assume that somebody listening has never even heard of the Topo mat and how that's possible. If they've made it through one of my podcasts, I don't know. But let's assume that we need to give them just kind of the cliff notes version of what the Topo mat is what it can do for people what the benefits are, I love to share with them very briefly as if they're, they're brand new to the Topo mat regime.
Kit Perkins 3:23
Great. Yeah, so the Topo mat is the first anti fatigue mat designed specifically for standing desks. Now, you know, five years, six years on now created a little bit of a market there. So there's some, you know, some other options there. But we're still, you know, we're the first to bring terrain to your standing desk. And the reason we want to do that is the real benefit of a standing desk is movement. And if you're just on flat ground or on a flat mat, it's really easy to get that kind of lock, you know, foot to floor foot to flat mat, and ended up not moving as much as you'd like to. But we found bringing in this what we call calculated terrain, or this cushion terrain under your feet, your brain just subconsciously engages and you just you know, sort of wander around and you get that movement at standing desk that you need, without even having to think about it at all.
Zack Arnold 4:12
And that's the key is not having to think about it. That's the big shift that I've seen from so many people. I was telling you a little bit beforehand, before we officially started recording about the experiences that I've had over and over where people will come to me at an event or a panel and they'll say I got the total map because of you. And I say to them, well is it working for you? They're like, Oh my god, it's crazy. Like I even had a standing mat before. So I didn't understand what's the big thing about the tobacco, but it was flat. Oftentimes, like I don't know what it's called. It's the thing with like, the knobs in the middle and the little bumps in the ridges. But the crazy thing was that after I started using it immediately, I just felt better because I wasn't stuck in one spot. I was moving around and I was fidgeting and my feet felt better and my shins felt better That's where I started. When I was at a standing desk, I figured I've got to be standing 12 hours a day. I don't want to move on when I get the work done, but I'm quote unquote healthy because I'm at a standing desk. And I ended up at a podiatrist because my feet were killing me and my shins were killing me and I need my knees were killing me. And I went through orthotics and I went through the whole process. And then as soon as I got your mat, it all just poof, disappeared. I'm like, Well, that was simple enough. And I've heard that from so many other people that even when they had a mat, once they use this one, it was a total game changer. So I have very, very many people that want to thank you for that in my audience. And I'm just curious, because now like you said, since we recorded years ago, this was kind of the only guy on the playground like this was it if you wanted something that had all the bumps and the ridges and whatnot, what do you think of some of the stuff that's come out since because I've seen quite a few knockoffs. So I'm curious, what do you think of now this market that you've in way created?
Kit Perkins 5:57
Yeah, so it's great that, you know, it shows that people care about being healthy in their offices, right, that there's this demand there that other people are interested to fill as well, since we first started and launched tobacco and first talked to you years ago, you know, we have introduced tobacco Mini, which is a you know, sort of slightly different size and form factor that we think works really well for smaller spaces and shorter users. And I think, you know, having some of that competition helped us realize that there was maybe a part of the market, we could serve better for the most part, unfortunately, these mats are really cheap material, that's that's kind of the biggest issue is a lot of the competition is really, really cheap, polyurethane, sometimes they do PVC coating to which can be toxic, and, you know, some allergy issues there. But you know, it's normally kind of slippery, both on the floor and on your feet, it's too soft. So people kind of bought them out, it's kind of unfortunate, there have been some cool attempts to introduce, you know, some additional features, massage balls, and even some of them that have like foam rollers on tracks, which is kind of a cool idea. Again, unfortunately, quality's just sort of, not there. We do, you know, on top of, especially the neutral areas kind of fenced in enough that you can leave a lacrosse ball, they're larger, careful not to trip. So yeah, we do like kind of some of that stuff. But we think we've just heard time and time again, that you know, with with tobacco, and now it's open mini two, we've kind of hit the sweet spot that it's it's the right premium quality materials and a right shape, that people are actually getting benefit out of this stuff and not tripping over it or, you know, moving that part out of the way ultimately, because it's kind of a gimmick.
Zack Arnold 7:30
And that's another story that I've heard from a multitude of people that have reached out to me is they said, I heard about the topo mat looked it up and it's a little bit out of my price range, I was hoping for something a little bit cheaper, I found this other one that it looked like it was the same thing. And then we leave it at that. And then a month later, nevermind, I got the topo map, the other one just didn't work. And then they get the topo. And that's it. One of the things that I appreciate about it the most I now have, I think I have four of them. Because I have one that I keep in my home office. I'm literally standing on it right now I spend more time on my topo map than I do an any other location on the planet all day long standing on this mat. But I also have one that I travel with when I'm working in various offices. But now because of the pandemic and people that are working from home, my wife has one and both of my kids have the Toko minis and they love them. So as soon as we got a height adjustable desk, knowing that they were going to be a school for long periods of time, I said, Well, I gotta get towboats like, that's it. And they love it. They just they play out and they kind of bounce around. And they they really appreciate it. And for me, it's just it's standard, like you just got to have it. But it seems so odd to even think that there should be a preference about something is small and quote unquote inconsequential as a standing mat, like, it should be anything. But you spend more time here than anywhere if you do creative work the way that I do. So I would rather be driving around in a Ferrari than a Ford Pinto. And I feel like this is the Ferrari of the standing mat.
Kit Perkins 8:49
Yeah, I mean, obviously, that's great to hear. And we feel the same way. I think even beyond just spending so much time there. One of the things you sort of don't realize is that at a standing desk, your main interface to the world, your body's main interface to the world is the ground. If you're going to invest in anything at that Ferrari level. It should be what you're standing on, I think
Zack Arnold 9:07
except it's a really inexpensive Ferrari, I just have that clear. If people are thinking my god, how much does this cost? It's very inexpensive. But also now that I've had one for years when I first got it, I couldn't talk about longevity. Minus the fact that I've probably spilled a couple things on it that I shouldn't have and maybe scuffed it up a little bit. If I were to polish it off. I never know that it was four or five years old. This thing is rock solid. I bought it once I'm going to have this for the rest of my career. That's what I like to buy things that I purchased them once I do it right and it's an investment and I never have to think about it again. Like I'm not looking at this thing. Well, it's starting to crack on the edges and it's wearing out like I've been feeling this thing could survive a nuclear holocaust. Yeah, I don't know if you've tested that but I can just it's it's just solid. All the mats that I had. They look brand new, and I've now had them for years. So I don't know. I don't know what's in your recipe, but it's working great. Yeah,
Kit Perkins 9:58
we worked really hard. On that mat durability, because in addition to just standing on it, sometimes you have stuff stuck to your shoes, sometimes you drop scissors on it or whatever, you know, the cleaning crew hits the vacuum every night. So we definitely wanted it to be as robust as we could get it. And for us, the secret is this integral skin, polyurethane. So basically, we developed this, you know, we weren't the first to make integral skin, but we, I would say honed our formula so that we got exactly the skin we want. So that we mix these two parts together, put them in a mold, and as they're expanding, when they come up against that barrier of the mold wall, they form this, you know, like durable skin, but you know, we get the pebble texture on it. So it still feels good. It doesn't feel like this hard, or rough shell but it does, you know, protect the core of the mat that is actually providing that cushion support for you.
Zack Arnold 10:45
Yeah, and what I want to point out here that's so important is not the detail specifically because most likely anybody listening is like the polyurethane what now what's important to me what I always pay attention to I don't just invest in products, I invest in people, and it's your level of attention to detail. That is the reason that I both invest in your product. And I now beg you on a quarterly basis, please continue to partner with me because I want to keep sharing this and I want to keep doing things together. It's not just because it's like a, you know, it's an opportunity for a little bit of extra money or whatever. I want to invest in great products and great people and your level of attention to detail. I just love it because most people say, let's cut a piece of rubber into a square and let's sell it, let's make money. And let's get the best profit margin possible and get as many units out there. And you're talking about polyurethane coatings and molds. And that's the kind of stuff that I love. And the reason I say that and first of all, I want to make sure that anybody that's listening that wants to go so much deeper into the story of the development of this match, I've got an hour long interview with you that we did when we first introduced this about four years ago, I'm going to make sure I have a link in the show notes. So people can access that. But going to this idea of level of attention to detail. This is why your next product really really intrigued me. Because at first, like I said, I'm like wait a second, the transition from standing desk, rubber mats to protein powder. I'm not quite seeing the connection. But I know this guy is all about attention to detail, and he wants to make the best product possible. So I'm willing to listen. So talk to me about the Genesis and the transformation and this movement towards I now want to make a supplement.
Kit Perkins 12:22
Yeah, so first of all, I appreciate you be an open minded about it. Absolutely. Yeah, so it did you know much like Toko started from using standing desks ourselves, me and my co founder Ryan and you know actually experiencing getting locked in sometimes on long sessions and, and not getting the benefits that we were expecting from standing desks, the started a lot the same way. You know, I'm also into to health and fitness generally not just when I'm standing at a desk, but I want it to be simple and straightforward. So I'm not like diving into every nuance corner, whatever for my own lifestyle there. You know, protein powder, I think fits great in a lifestyle where you care about health and fitness. And you don't want to be eating all the time, like you're the rock or something. And so I've used a lot of protein powders over the years and about a year year and a half ago, which I think you said you tried it around the same time to I started adding collagen into my protein shakes. And man the benefits were like more dramatic than any supplement I've ever seen. And it was so didn't add extra complication in my life, right? I mean, I'm adding this extra powder tastes kind of funny mixed into the shake, but I'm still fundamentally just drinking a shake and feel way better. So I thought if I could just get this down to coming out of one jar. And it's you know, ingredients that I know I can trust. And it's not weird combined tastes and it actually mixes well. It's not all clumpy that this is a nice, elegant solution. The same way tobacco is right the same way that you put tobacco down in front of your desk. And now you don't have to think about it and you're just moving. Right? Once you get high quality whey protein, high quality collagen protein in one mix, you just put it in water. And you don't have to think about it, you're getting all the other protein your muscles need, but also your bones and ligaments and you know, all your soft tissues as well.
Zack Arnold 13:56
So where I want to start is kind of the the basics for somebody that isn't really into whey and collagen and all this other stuff like I think to you and I it's just second nature because we both really focus on fitness and optimal performance. And even though I'm not at the Ben Greenfield biohacking level where I'm like doing coffee enemas and doing all this crazy stuff, I definitely am doing more than the average bear. So I was looking into the different types of things. And it My first reaction was, well wait, what do you mean collagen? Isn't that like, the stuff that models are like injecting into their lips in their foreheads, like, what's going on? So let's start with the basics. What is collagen? Why in the world would I ever put it in a protein powder? So you
Kit Perkins 14:33
know, we sort of have this visceral understanding, I guess from you know, high school science classes that our bodies are made up of protein.
Zack Arnold 14:40
And I think at this point, when I say protein, a lot of people think muscle, but the rest of your body structures are also made of protein. And there are different amino acids, different proteins that actually make up those different parts of your body. So we've you know, in nutrition, there's been lots of focus on the type of protein like in whey protein is a really popular one because that sort of close Matches what's in your muscles. And a lot of people are taking protein supplements just to gain muscle, the rest of your body is also made of protein. And there are lots of reasons to support that. And historically, we have eaten a lot of collagen right in in bone broth or eating some other parts of the animal that maybe don't get eaten today, for the most part, but your body still needs those, right, we need to be able to build our bones to be able to build our ligaments and teeth, even hair nails, repair your skin. And that's predominantly collagen is the type of protein that you need there. So that's your body can produce a small amount of collagen, but you need a lot more. And most people aren't getting it from diet these days. And I had the exact same experience that you did when I first started hearing about collagen and I made a resurgence in the athletic in the supplement community. I was like, I'll try it. And I echo exactly what you said, I've never taken another supplement where within a few days, I noticed as much of a stark difference. And for me, it was specifically skin and joints. Just to reiterate what you said when people think of protein powders, they think well, I don't want to get big and bulky. And well that's not what this is about. to me. This is about repair. I have had terrible skin my whole life like to the point where I had anxiety issues and just all kinds of bad memories and trauma because of how bad my skin has been within weeks of doing collagen in my protein powder. And in my my protein shakes. Like I feel like I've lost 10 years of my life looking at the quality of my skin. I just it feels younger, it doesn't break out as much. But the other thing that I noticed is that this is a little bit embarrassing, but one of my one of my bad habits is that whenever I drive, I bite my nails. Otherwise I don't bite into my nails. But I live in Los Angeles and it's very anxiety and stress inducing. When you spend two plus hours every single day on the freeway going back and forth to work, I couldn't bite my nails off anymore. They were too hard. I was like what is going on, like I used to just be able to, you know, to to chew and like have all the nails off and I'm like, I can't bite into my nails anymore. They are rock hard. And they were just smoother and they look better. And I just I saw a tremendous difference. But the biggest one and I think this is the one that's going to be so imperative for most of the people that are listening is that my joints feel better. I didn't have any kind of pain or aching and shoulders, elbows, knees, lower back hips. That was a big one. For me. It was my hips, I have a lot of issues with hip mobility. And specifically when I started training for Ninja, I went from not really having any mobility or not that much strength to feeling like I was getting a lot stronger. But I also felt 150 years old the next day after any workout because my joints were killing me. As soon as I introduced collagen, all of that disappeared.
Kit Perkins 17:39
Yes, that's fantastic to hear. First of all, it's funny you bring up nails because that was for me. That was the first thing to was like, I mean, it was like two or three weeks after just starting, you know, a daily add it to my shake kind of thing. And yeah, I mean, it's like hard to even describe how different my nails were twice as thick. Like, looks like there's nail polish on I'm almost there. So glossy. But then yeah, you're right that the joints this was the next thing I noticed specifically for me that the time I really noticed is like, first getting out of bed in the morning. You know, like, unfortunately, as the years have gone by every day getting out of bed, it's like, you know what's gonna be stiff from how I slept last night or no matter, you know, where you put pills, whatever, there's always something and two or three creeks and pops in the first couple steps and that I thought you just sort of live with now. But yeah, once once starting the collagen, you know, daily or near daily, it's just gone. I'm just back to what getting out of bed was like, I mean, literally 10 years ago, which is fantastic.
Zack Arnold 18:32
Yeah. And I've experienced all the all the same things as well. And now that we've kind of dispelled the the notion or any confusion for anyone that's asking, well wait, what is even collagen? And why would I need it and they have all these misconceived notions of what it might be, I want to make it very clear that collagen is an essential part of any kind of a healthy nutrition plan for like, we talked about bones and joints and teeth, inherent skin and all those other building blocks that we're not getting from nutrition. But beyond that, why wouldn't I just buy some super cheap collagen? Just keep adding it to whatever the existing shake is, or other whey proteins or whatever, like, why do I need you to do the work for me? Like, what are the benefits if you haven't done all of it in one place?
Kit Perkins 19:11
Yeah. So I think there's a couple benefits there. And the first one I'll speak to is quality. So a big part of what we're talking about here kind of comes back to you are what you eat. I didn't realize sort of how fundamentally true that is right? That you're, your body's constantly repairing and rebuilding. And the only stuff it can use to repair and rebuild is what you've been eating, and whatever you've been eating is what it's going to use. So you want to make sure that what you're getting, especially if you're specifically adding it to your diet for the purpose of providing good building material, you want to make sure it is really high quality. And just like liver or some other sort of more interesting parts of an animal, that collagen can really store the toxins or whatever, you know, the sins of the original animal that you're getting the collagen from can definitely be stored there if it's low quality, so really, really, really important to get high quality collagen. So For us, that was, you know, job one eight here was make sure it's high quality, and that's grass fed, hundred percent pasture raised cows, you know, make our collagen. And then the second thing I'll talk about is this sort of convenience factor, right. So we have this, you know, sort of fundamental belief that you should be getting this basic building block with these basic building blocks for your body's repair and recovery, you know, daily or near daily. And if you're actually going to do it every day, it needs to be simple, it needs to taste good. You know, you don't want any hiccups or weird issues in the process, right. And that's why it's great to have just like one jar, with everything in it in the right ratios already, you're not like weighing or measuring anything against each other, whatever, right, you just put a scoop and water mix is really easy, it's not clumpy and you drink it, you don't have to worry about it, you do that day in day out, and we're providing it at this two to one ratio, that's is how you know the way to collagen, it's roughly the ratio of the protein structures in your body, you know, it becomes like a multivitamin, almost, you just don't have to think about it. It's just done for you.
Zack Arnold 21:02
And I think one of the things that's really, really imperative to share here about this idea of it being a multivitamin and being convenient. And as far as talking about quality as well, one thing that I want to first add, everybody's heard you are what you eat, here's something that very few people consider you are also what you're eating and what that thing is eating, right. So that's where the quality comes in. So you are what your animal that you are eating eats. So that's a big thing. So if I'm going to put some kind of protein or animal product in my body, I always ask the question, what is that animal eating? So I'm very skittish of most products that are animal based, or if I'm just buying hamburger or turkey or whatever it is, if I don't understand, is it organic? Is it pasture raised? Is it stuck in some factory, and it's injected with antibiotics? So where is it that you're sourcing your protein specifically, from either the way the collagen or both?
Kit Perkins 21:51
Yeah, so that's, that's really wise. First of all, that you write you are what you eat eats to, essentially. And that's, that's a great point. So right for us, it's both the collagen and the way, our hundred percent grass fed pasture raised cows from New Zealand. So you know, there's, there's no doubt at all of the sort of provenance of the ingredients there. And we keep it simple beyond that, right? It's the way the collagen, a little bit of stevia, some vanilla flavor. And that's it. So you don't have to worry about, you know, crazy chemicals mixed in there either. One of the other things
Zack Arnold 22:20
that really surprised me about this product is that having looked at so many different protein powders and supplements, you usually need a PhD to read the ingredients and read the nutrition label. And I looked at yours, and I'm like, Where are the rest of the ingredients like this, it can't be this simple. But then I'm like, Ah, this is the guy that made the topo mat, it's just a piece of rubber that does his job. So now I get it, it goes back to this idea of the design mind and the simplicity. But also the highest level of quality. This thing has like four ingredients, maybe five, like I mean, there's almost nothing here. But then when you look at the amino acid profile, and you look at the nutrient profile, this thing really is a multivitamin. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it sounds almost cliche to say everything you want, and nothing you don't, but it seems like so few people deliver on that and, and we just didn't stop working on it until that's what we had is everything you want and nothing you don't, which takes me back to the conversation about the topel mat rip offs, where they've got the little lacrosse ball and the Rolly thing, and it's got all the bumps and the ridges, but then it falls apart. And you really don't need most of it anyway. And why is it even there? It's just there. So it looks pretty in the picture on Amazon, but it doesn't actually do anything.
Kit Perkins 23:24
Yeah, it's I mean, it is it's tempting as designers to add features, but one of the things you learn over time is you want to focus on benefits to the user. And just because it's cool to be able to talk about doesn't mean it's actually helpful
Zack Arnold 23:35
or great. So the The next component that I think is really important that so few people talk about. And so a few people even think about is if somebody were to come to me and say, what's the best protein powder, I'm going to talk about? Well, it's got to be quality sourced ingredients. And you want to make sure you have this ratio, and x and y and z. But honestly, the best protein powder is the one that you're going to use consistently. Otherwise, what's the point and the only way you're going to use any supplements or protein powder consistently is if it does not taste like you're licking the bottom of a shoe. So let's talk about taste. Because this was one that really surprised me when I went with other collagens like we've talked about, it's just kind of an additive. It's like a bonus, it really has no taste. It's a little bit grainy er than a protein powder doesn't create all the dust and it's just it's very grainy, but it's almost kind of non existent. So and you said, Well, this is going to be a combination of whey and collagen and like, oh god Am I still gonna have to add a lot more stuff to this to make it palatable. And the first few times I went through it as it was a bit of an adjustment because I was so used to a specific kind of taste with what I was using I about scoop number five or 10. I was like, Oh my god, this is probably my favorite protein supplement that I've used. And as soon as it was done, it's like I don't I don't want to go back to what I have now. But I had like three bags of other stuff and like, I just got to get through it. And then just a couple of weeks ago I sent in a new order and like oh my god, I'm still craving it like a month and a half later because the taste was so much better. So talk to me about what you did to just make this not taste awful.
Kit Perkins 25:03
Yeah. So I think part of it is, you know, a lot of as you mentioned, though, any other sort of collagen product, it's not intended to be the whole product, right? So they're just thinking of it as a piece. And they sort of don't get to control the experience the way that we do, I guess, right. So having all of it together in one jar, like we know what the ultimate flavor that we're delivering is. So that's one way we get to deliver a better experience. Second was just, you know, old fashioned working on it. We basically I think the standard when you're honing in flavors like this, is to start with like five flavors, and maybe you move in a direction. And overall, you probably test nine in the process. I think we tested somewhere around 75 different flavors. So you know, just keep going keep tasting stuff until you get something you really like. This one actually, we did get a lot of help from family kind of funny, we were at that stage in the process over Christmas time. And then so I was with a bunch of extended family and we just before Christmas dinner as hors d'oeuvres had, you know, a row of like, shaker cups, and everybody tasted different flavors and taking surveys for us. So that was really helpful.
Zack Arnold 26:06
Did you have a turkey gravy flavor just for the holiday season?
Kit Perkins 26:09
We did we experimented with a couple of pretty out there flavors. I think the weirdest one was peanut butter, banana, but decided, at least to start that we should stick with, you know, nice, clean, classic vanilla.
Zack Arnold 26:22
I was gonna say that brings me to my next question, which is at least as as far as when you and I are recording this. Vanilla is the only publicly available flavor? Yes.
Kit Perkins 26:31
Yes, that's correct. Yeah. So I think, you know, part of our ethos here is simplicity. And like you said, right, the protein powder your take is better than than any other one. And so for us, you know, we, we wanted to be able to deliver recurring deliveries. So you're never out. We don't want that to happen to you. And, and we wanted to come in at a really affordable price that you could actually, you know, picture yourself actually doing this every day. And, you know, that means simplicity and in our processes, too. And one way to do that is one flavor. For now,
Zack Arnold 26:58
is there a plan to do even just maybe not like peanut butter chocolate banana cookie dough? But is there a plan to do least like maybe a chocolate and some of the other basics that you get from the other companies?
Kit Perkins 27:06
Yeah, so our next flavor will be chocolates. We're in the early stages of testing some flavors there. But I would say don't hold your breath for it. If you like vanilla period, you'll like ours. And you know, get going now and think of it as an added bonus when chocolate does come out down the line.
Zack Arnold 27:21
Yeah, and I'm one of those outliers. I think the we're in the minority, but I always prefer vanilla over chocolate. I don't mind chocolate. But if I have to choose, it's always vanilla. There's just something richer about that flavor. And most people say vanilla is not even a flavor. But to me it is I actually enjoy it better. So then the next question regarding flavors or varieties is probably one, you've gotten quite a bit. given everything that's in the Zeitgeist with nutrition. Is there going to be a plant based version? Hmm, no, there's not in general. We're not plant based, sort of people. And we think that getting back to the UI what you eat conversation, right? We're trying to build people here, not plants. So you know, we think that, that having the protein come from animal sources is the, you know, the cleanest, highest quality protein that we can deliver. And that that will remain true, you know, barring some pretty significant scientific breakthroughs? Well, and one of the reasons I asked this is kind of a sort of trick question. But I think it's an easy question for people to ask. And I may not know enough about nutrition to definitively say this, but isn't it literally impossible to have plant based collagen? Because collagen is produced by animals? I mean, there's lots of stuff that I would have called impossible before the lab did something sort of similar to it. But yeah, I mean, that's certainly true enough. For my purposes, I think if somebody is marketing, plant based collagen, I'd be very wary of what it actually is. It just makes me wonder how are they creating it? And I just asked that, because it's if you don't know enough about the the ingredients and how protein powders work, everybody's always asking, Is there a plant based version because I'm vegan, and you're using whey protein, you could replace it with pea protein or whatever. But you can't replace collagen protein with a plant based version, because it's created by animals. It let's just create it in a lab, there is no natural version of a plant based collagen. So I asked that question. So if somebody were listening or thinking, oh, maybe there's a plant based, it's not possible. It can't happen unless it's created in a lab. So that's why I wanted to make sure to ask that and have that conversation.
Kit Perkins 29:12
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great point that the, you know, one of the core benefits we're delivering here is this really high quality collagen? And it's just not possible to get collagen from plants? That's an animal product, by definition. Exactly.
Zack Arnold 29:23
So the last thing I want to talk about very quickly, that you alluded to, is this idea of affordable. This was really the clincher for me, because a lot of people reach out after I write about supplements or protein powders or recommend something. And first of all, recommendation, just never write about nutrition, because it's just like religion for people. And I never get more trolls than when I talk about nutrition and supplements. So that's that's just my first caveat to anybody listening. Just don't do it. But I'm in a position where I still like to share this stuff. And the biggest objection is always Oh, god, this is so expensive. I would never pay this. Then of course, if you were to look at their credit card statements and see how much they're spending on junk food or coffee or alcohol or anything else, like there's a huge psychological disconnect. But when I saw the sticker price for this, I had sticker price shock, because of how cheap it was. I'm like, and let me let me rephrase that. It's not cheap, it's inexpensive, because it's high quality, knowing the amount of time you put into it, I assume that a month serving of this was going to be in the neighborhood of 80 to $100. And I don't want to box you in and say what the price is, as of recording this because it might change. And I don't want three years from now somebody said, Oh, you said it was this on this podcast. But let's just say, I don't even know how you're making any money off of this. I don't know how you're getting your profit margins where they are, because this is so incredibly affordable compared to all the competitors out there.
Kit Perkins 30:42
Yeah, I mean, so the nutritional supplement industry is certainly not perfect. It's largely still built around this brick and mortar model. Everybody's using three middlemen between production and the end user. And that's just not the way the world's going. And it's not the way for us to deliver the best experience. So for us, it's, it's just us, right, you know, we have a manufacturing partner, and then we ship it out to you. And the reason that price can be so low, and it will stay there, although maybe not at this specific dollar amount, obviously, things change over time. But the reason that this price is so low, is because there's nobody else who's getting paid off off your purchase. And secondly, we have a an ethos of wanting to establish a relationship here, right, like we're not trying to be, you can see in our jar design, it's really simple, right? We're not trying to be the flashy jar that gets your eye one time in the whole foods aisle, and we get that purchase. And that's it. Right, we want you to be using this product long term, we want you to see the benefits long term. And that means we want a price that feels just as good as the benefits to long term.
Zack Arnold 31:48
Well, my goal is that for anybody that is a creative professional like myself that's stuck in front of a computer for inordinate amounts of time of their waking life. Number one, they're doing it standing on a table mat. Number two, they've got a glass of new standard protein next to them. So they can just fuel their body fuel their brain. So they don't have to worry about feeling like I have to snack all the time, or I'm always hungry, they got that new standard, they're standing on their Topol mat, and they're done. So you and I, my friend, one edit station at a time are going to change the world.
Kit Perkins 32:16
I like it. That's a utopian vision I can get on board with.
Zack Arnold 32:19
So on that note, I want to thank you once again, for taking the time to chat with me, before we go, is there anything else that I missed that you really want to share about this new product,
Kit Perkins 32:28
the last thing I want to say so when you get to the website and check out the product, you'll see there's options for one time purchase. And as sort of Subscribe and Save, which, you know, you've probably seen on other sites, too, we worked on this software that's really easy to manage your subscription and everything. So I recommend just start with the Subscribe and Save, you get a discount on the very first order, you can always cancel it, you can even cancel it like you know, an hour later, still get the discount. But I just want to make sure that that you at least get that discount even on that first order and you can take it from there.
Zack Arnold 32:53
I love it, then that's just another reason that I like to invest in people in addition to products, because big companies would not tell you just sign up for the subscription and cancel Five minutes later, it works fine. Like, I want to make sure you save money. Like you don't hear that from the bigger companies, which is why I like to find the smaller companies that are about the people and the products. So last And finally, the most important question that we haven't talked about yet, where can people actually find this stuff?
Kit Perkins 33:19
Yes, that's that is very important. So the website is ns, just like new standard and S dash nutrition, calm and even better for your listeners, with code, optimize on either a one time purchase for that first, Subscribe and Save order 50% off. So if you do that, Subscribe and Save that's 20% off and 50% off with code optimized. It's a fantastic deal.
Zack Arnold 33:42
I'm assuming you said 5% off, right? You didn't you couldn't have possibly said 50% off because nobody does that. Nobody does
Kit Perkins 33:47
it. But yeah, it is 50% off. And like I said, you know, we really believe in this product. We really believe in how fast you see results. And so we know that that people want to come back.
Zack Arnold 33:57
I love it. Like I said I love investing in products. But I also love investing in people and nobody, nobody gives this kind of discount. So like you said, it's all about building those relationships. And I want to build a relationship between you and all the people that are listening today. So once again, such a pleasure to have you on the call today. I look forward to talking about your next product, who knows what it's going to be but I look forward to having that conversation very soon. So thank you so much for being here.
Kit Perkins 34:21
Thanks for having me. It was great.
Zack Arnold 34:25
If you are a creative professional looking for a simple and affordable way to stay energetic and focused while spending long hours at your desk, not to mention if you're hoping to alleviate chronic pains, I cannot stress enough one more time how important it is to prioritize your most basic nutritional needs as well as the surface that you're going to be standing on for the vast majority of your waking life. New standard hole protein with a blend of both whey and collagen is my go to source for my essential nutritional building blocks without any of the unnecessary filler or garbage. It is sourced from the highest quality ingredients tastes amazing. And unlike most protein supplements out there, you don't have to pay for all of the excessive marketing advertising expenses. And of course, as you already know, the total mat is my number one recommendation for standing mats. To learn more about new standard protein is optimize yourself.me slash new standard. And don't forget to use the code optimize for 50% off your first order. And then to get your toboe mat visit optimize yourself that means slash tobacco. Thank you for listening to this special episode. Stay safe, healthy and sane and be well
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Our Generous Sponsors:
This episode was brought to you by Ergodriven, the makers of the Topo Mat (my #1 recommendation for anyone who stands at their workstation) and now their latest product. New Standard Whole Protein is a blend of both whey and collagen, sourced from the highest quality ingredients without any of the unnecessary filler or garbage. Not only will you get more energy and focus from this protein powder, you will notice improvements in your skin, hair, nails, joints and muscles. And because they don’t spend a lot on excessive marketing and advertising expenses, the savings gets passed on to you.
Kit Perkins is the founder of New Standard Nutrition and the creator of New Standard Whole Protein.
The original music in the opening and closing of the show is courtesy of Joe Trapanese (who is quite possibly one of the most talented composers on the face of the planet).