Ep234: [CASE STUDY] How to Make the Most of Slow Work Periods and Make a Career Pivot | with Malinda Zehner Guerra

Zack Arnold

I am here today with Malinda Zehner Guerra. Malinda you are a three time Emmy nominated film and television editor your nominations are for your work on Naked and Afraid XL, RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars and Born This Way. And your most recent work can be seen on season four of the hit HBO Max show now just the max show, there's a conversation that's not worth getting into a Black Lady Sketch Show. And also you're going to be working on the upcoming season of American Horror stories. But most importantly, for the sake of today's conversation, you are also a longtime member of the Optimizer community, you are an OG that goes way back in the day. And that's why we're here is to talk all about your journey today. So I appreciate you being here. And now being one of those star students that can inspire others along their own journey. So thank you,

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Thank you excited to finally get to be here.

Zack Arnold

Yeah, this is gonna be fun. So I already kind of mentioned this to you offline. But I'm going to start the conversation with what I just said to you before, which is I knew that you and I were going to be doing a podcast together when we met all those many years ago. And if I look back into my notes, which by the way I have in front of me, you probably don't remember. But you and I spoke for the first time on September 13, of 2019. Has it been three and a half years, it is amazing to think that it has been that long, I literally don't even recognize you both physically, because you look very different than you did back then. But I look at the notes. And I see the things that you mentioned, the challenges you were facing the fears that you had, and who you've become now two completely different people. And I want to talk all about what helped facilitate that transformation, because I think so many people in this industry are stuck and frustrated with where you were, which is this idea of I'm I'm doing work that I'm good at but it's no longer meaningful. And I'm not creatively fulfilled by it. And I want to make a transition to something else. And a lot of people very similar to trying to get from the unscripted to the scripted world. We're going to talk more about that we're going to talk more about your story. But I actually want to start from a slightly different angle, which is I'm going to get on a soapbox for 30 seconds, and you're going to help get on my soapbox with me. Yeah. Now there's something that drives me absolutely insane in our industry, which is whenever somebody asked the following question, and you can probably back this up way more from experience than I could. How do you transition from unscripted to scripted? And everybody's advices? You have to step back to being an assistant editor. Malinda, how do you feel about that advice?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

I did not want to take that advice, though. There were moments that I contemplated it. And I actually turned down an aide job, right before I got Black Lady Sketch Show. And I was like, Nope, it was someone I had networked with. And I, you know, he was like, if you want it, you can be my assists for a fox show. And I was like, You know what, I'm gonna stick to my guns just a little bit longer. And obviously, that was the right move. But you know, you have those moments of like, maybe I should just just do it. But you don't have to. I think we're learning that more and more now to kind of the more that people do come over from unscripted into scripted that you can kind of make that transition. But it does take a lot more legwork to get there.

Zack Arnold

It's funny because not only do I disagree with the advice of what people say the only way you can do it is to be an assistant. It's the more likely way it's the more common way and it is the better known path. But I know a multitude of people, you've been the latest on that list of you decided this is not the right fit for me. And I don't want to go the a route and you've proven that it can be done. So I'm not saying that it isn't hard. But when people say it literally can't be done. It's complete total and utter bullshit, which is one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here is to just show proof positive can't happen. But when you said that you didn't want to do the legwork, so to speak or that there would be more legwork. If we looked at when we started to work together back in 2019. And you had the the distinguishing mark of being in my networking class that started in January of 2020. When we were strategizing, how do we set up all these in person meetings and shadowing opportunities and build relationships? And then of course, March happened? It's like, so we're going to networking class, what are we going to do for the next two months as the world shuts down? We can't do anything. I will never forget to that class or that semester. Yeah. That was certainly something that what came out of it as far as all the strategies to network virtually vehicle that we're each and everything that we teach now would not be where it was without the pandemic. But what I what I want to maybe push back on is that if you were chosen to go the AE route versus the editor route, I don't think it would have been any easier. I think you would have spent years as an assistant editor as opposed to us spending years kind of clawing and scraping. And you know, you can talk about some of the short films, some of the indie features. But for me, it's always the question of, I want to get there eventually, what am I doing with my time to get there? So talk to me why you specifically made the choice, I don't want to be in a AE and I would rather go the indie route.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Part of it is I am not great. Technically, when I was an AE when I first started a in unscripted, we were still using tapes, though it was a while. So any of the new especially in like VFX, tournaments, all that stuff. I had never experienced any of that. Now, I had done a bunch of indie films and short films, like you said, and I had to be my own assist. And so I kind of figured out how to get things done, especially in Premiere makes it a little, a little more user friendly, to be doing that on your own. But every time we would start a new project, I'd have to go back and like go back to YouTube and be like, wait a minute, how do I do proxies? How do I do this? What are the so that was just, I didn't want to invest a lot of time in having to learn a lot of technical things that are not my strong suit, like, I'm very organized, I could do it, I know, I could do it. If that was literally, you know, there was no other option. But it wasn't something I wanted to invest a lot of time and because I had spent so long editing, you know, it had been like 13 years since I was in assists. So, so much have changed and in a different genre as well. So I just didn't want to take that time. And I thought it would be more worthwhile to do those independent features with those short films or, you know, things that didn't pay doing it on the weekends, or in the little time I had between shows, and actually get the experience of cutting a scripted piece. So that I knew I could do it. When I got the chance. You know, yes, some of those credits were not like anything that anybody recognized. So, you know, they weren't as legitimate. But some of the stuff you have to do on an independent film, like as you know, it was like way harder than anything when you have like a full support system. And you know, the Warner Music Library and an assistant and a post producer who's doing clearances and pulling things like it's a lot easier when instead of being a one man band, so I thought it was more worthwhile to kind of take the time to actually cut scripted pieces, even if it wasn't paying off initially, but I didn't, I'd rather invest my time that way and get that experience than having to go backwards and learn a bunch of stuff that I wasn't very good at, like or interested in to begin with. Because I feel like that would have sucked my soul. Even more than, you know, working on an unscripted show that maybe it wasn't super interested in, but at least I was editing. And I you know, I always try to at least tried to do a bunch of different genres so that I had, you know, I have a shiny floor show, I have a competition show I've done survival. I've done Docu follow. So I can do all of that. And in some way that all also lends to being able to cut different genres of scripted. So.

Zack Arnold

Yeah and the thing to really just to re emphasize what I'd said before is that both options are going to suck, both options are that are going to be hard. But how do you actually want to spend your time knowing that? Well, the choices are I can either be an assistant doing stuff, I'm really not that good at that I don't have the aptitude for that I'm not interested in, that's going to suck. But if you're thinking but that's the path and that's going to lead to the editor's chair, not even that's true, because there are a multitude of career assistants and scripts that are saying I can't get into the editor's chair, because they're not even transferable. So why go a path that you don't even want to do and you don't want to learn. Whereas at least with the indie route, you're still honing your craft, you're still getting better at dealing with performance and dealing with notes and dealing with difficult creative people. And frankly, I don't think there's any better training ground on the planet than editing a really shitty indie film. You want to get good at problem solving really fast edit something that's low budget in indie, because you're your own assistant. There's nobody that's helping you with the story. So if you have to deal with all these people where this is their baby, this is their life and you have to manage all the personalities, you come out of that boot camp, you can cut anything with anybody. So to me, you had so many transferable and valuable skills that came from that. Whereas it's not to say that the skills as an assistant editor are transferable and valuable. You just didn't care about those skills, you had no interest in developing them. So that's why I always caution people when they're told you can't make the transition from editor and unscripted to editor and scripted I vocally and very clearly called bullshit doesn't mean that it's not harder to go the other direction but at least you're doing something with your time. Um, that's valuable that you enjoy where you're still learning and growing, even if it's frustrating. So that's that's kind of how I wanted to tee off this conversation just so people know that that to me is the crux of why I wanted to share your story, no actually want to break it down, because people like, that's great. But how did you do it? So I actually want to talk a little bit more about that story. And we had the basics, which are that in the unscripted world, you are clearly working at a very high level, you are multiple Emmy nominated, all three of those shows are like anybody would have heard of those, even if they don't watch unscripted or reality. Everybody knows the name of those shows. So if you can remember, and I've got some notes if we need to go back to them, but at least for now, do you want to give give us a little bit more background of what your headspace was, when you initially decided that you wanted to reach out to me back in 2019, and you were ready for a change?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Yeah I feel like at that point, I had done a couple of shorts, and two, or one kind of indie feature. And I needed the, the structure and the organization of how to like network, because like most of us in post production, we are introverts and like to be in our little, little dark rooms. And it is hard to, it's hard to ask people for help. I think, you know, it just in general, I think we're kind of conditioned to not ask for help or to be like stoic and like, get it, you can get it done. But you know, that idea that if you don't tell people what you want, or what you're hoping to do, nobody's going to know nobody's going to think of you for that. So, but I needed the help, learning how to put myself out there learning how to write a good outreach, email, and how to network smart and figure that out. And just to how I think also, you know, like you said, I started in 2019, I'm still coming into office hours and part of the community because sometimes it's just nice to sit there and listen to other people talk about their website, and then you're like, oh, shoot, I need to Yeah, I need to do that, too. Or, you know, somebody's doing something on their resume. And you're like, oh, I should update like, I that would be good on mine. So there's always that, that help and that network and, and being a part of with other people who are kind of also going through the same, like, I loved our small group, to just, you know, be there and have everyone's going through the same thing, or trying to do something different. And you have that support system. So I really needed this, the guidance and the structure to be able to be brave enough to go out there and network. And, yeah, 2020 I literally sent like my first networking email to somebody and like, February, January, and we made a plan to beat for like drinks, and we had great like networking. And I was like, Yeah, this is great. I'm gonna do another one. The next weekend, everything shut down. And I was like, womp womp. So yeah, that first email went off great.

Zack Arnold

And not only did he go off great, you don't need to mention the name. But we're, I went back through the notes because I thought I remembered him like, Yep, I remember who it was to, anybody in the scripted world would know who this person is, Emmy winning works on huge shows, you sent one email, yeah, and movie sent one email all set up to do the meeting. And then of course, you know, the world decides to take your crap. But from that point on, it wasn't you or the other students that chose to give up, we just decided we're going to deviate, and we're gonna go a slightly different path and started to do everything, virtually. And for the next year, or the next really two years, a world was just kind of an unmitigated disaster. But I what I kept saying, and I was confident ish at the time, but I wasn't sure, because I didn't have the data. But I was like, something tells me that there's going to be two types of people, there's going to be those that have their head in their sand, and they're gonna wait until things go back to normal, they're gonna start to put themselves out there. But I really believe the ones that are doing the work. Now, while everybody is afraid. They're the ones that are going to build the network and build the relationships. And they're going to shoot out of the gates and they're going to start to see success. You are part of that camp, that even though it wasn't like as soon as the market opens, oh, hey, I'm working in scripted on my favorite shows. But you really started to make inroads and build those relationships, such that you are where you are now. And I just I want to go back now to a couple of very specific things that you said to me way back in 2019, where the advice you're giving now, just I don't even recognize the same person. First of all, when I asked you, what are the things that you really like to do, like if you really if you did every what I always say to my new students, let's pretend you did everything right. Where do you want to be in about three years in your career? And you said that Oh, I really want to do is I want to edit shows that I would watch and I would love to work on like premium HBO shows. Boom, look at where we are now. You're literally there. And I asked you the question. Well, what what's stopping you from making that happen? You said well, It's really hard for me to say when I want things from people, because I always feel like I'm asking too much. And you literally said, I have this in my notes. Help me, help me help me. Right. That's what you thought networking was. And you said, I just really, really shy. And now you're giving all this great networking advice. And you're building all these, these relationships. And when you when you first came to the program, boy, were you just in a shell, you were just so on this little shell, right? And now, like I said, I literally don't even recognize you.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Thank you. I mean, I will say, I'm still in a little bit of a shell sometimes. But you know, the West, we all are. Yes, I think the one thing that the good thing about the pandemic and networking is that suddenly everybody was on Zoom, right? And it's so much easier to ask somebody to chat with you on Zoom for 30 minutes, or an hour than coffee or a meet up. Because you know, when we are working, it's so hard to like, get away and like, yeah, you might talk to somebody for an hour, having coffee or lunch or whatever. But it's a 30 minute commute, and maybe a 45 minute, you're asking for so much more time. Whereas it's so easy for people to be like, Yeah, let's just hop on a zoom. Because you know, you're right there at your computer. There's no commute time. So I think that is one of the blessings that we had for for networking that now everybody can, you know, once you have a relationship with somebody, yeah, meet for coffee or lunch or whatever, because you've established that, but it is also easy to be like, Hey, can you know, I have questions or whatever? Following your structure, but and it so many times, it's been like, Yeah, let's just hop on a zoom. So that made things so much easier. And I think takes the fear out for both sides, right for somebody who is being reached out to cold or warm. And then also the person sending the email because you know, you don't have to, you're not asking as much time. If someone's like, yeah, I can do 30 minutes on a zoom over my lunch break. So you're not you don't also feel like you're asking for as much. So I think that's one kind of bonus of the Zoom era.

Zack Arnold

Yeah, and what that I think that's one of the greatest things to come out of an otherwise horrible situation of the pandemic, because that's now just the new norm, we can still meet with people, we can still go to lunch and grab coffee. Nobody wants to, we still want to do zoom, because we don't want to go anywhere. So I love that that's just become the new norm. And it's allowed people to become so much more accessible. But I know that you've experienced this some and when I worked with you, it was still much more the Hey, guys, I kind of don't know what I'm doing. But let's figure it out together and see what you think of this strategy. Now. I mean, you've kind of seen the evolution where now it's just like it is a system, it's a formula, step by step by step, do the following 10 steps, boom, you get results. My last semester out of I think I 10 students in my class, they sent the email like clockwork all at the same time, on a Friday afternoon, the following week, 50% of them not only got a response, but all five of them. The response from the person was exactly what you said, you know, what, why don't we just jump on Zoom? And that was the mind blowing part. Because as you learn, you don't ask for it. Right? Before it was well, you know, Hi, my name is Malinda. And I've, you know, I'm interested in this. And my resume is attached for your reference anytime to grab coffee. So I can pick your brain and brain or jump on Zoom. Not that you were doing that. But a lot of people do that. And I just want to I want to clarify when you said that you were hopping on zoom with people, you weren't asking them for it, they were asking you with the way that you connected with them and started the relationship. So basically, I want to pull back the curtain. I don't want it to be any secret where people like, what are they going to tell us how they did it? Or is he just gonna force us to join and pay like, I want people to know how you made this happen every gory detail. I want them to walk away from this conversation, total mindset shift for how they can build these relationships. Because you are proof positive you put in the work, you are patient, you learn your craft, you make sure that people know that you are awesome at your craft, you get results. So let's break down how did we help you transition from Oh, God, I don't want to bother people. And I'm so shy. And I don't want to ask for help to yell, I'll reach out to you know, one of the best known female editors in scripted television and see if she'll set up a call with me like, what how did we start to break down those barriers? And what are the strategies that really stick out for you?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

I think one of the biggest things is being specific about and I'm not always a specific, you know, we all think oh, I can do anything, I can do anything. You know, back in the acting days, that same thing, I can play any character but you really can't. And there are things that you want to do more than others. So specifically, I think that idea of dialing down into what do you want to be doing and who was a few years ahead of you? Because then you know who to reach out to and you know, your amazing spreadsheet that is so so many dropped down, and it's so in depth, but like finding those people that are working on the shows that you want to work on helps, I think make that connection when you reach out to them and say, I really loved this or that, I was lucky that I had a little bit of a fun connection with that person that I reached out to as well because we were nominated for Emmys at the same time and in the same category. So I was able to be like "You stole my Emmy."

Zack Arnold

That's a really great place to start with the subject line. Hi, you stole my Emmy. I would open that.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Yeah. And so you know, I mean, like, I'm finding those kind of ways of connecting, because you're connecting with their material as well. So and I've even done that within within the Optimizer community, there was another person on you know, the new student orientation that you know, I kind of get on and I IMDb everybody to see who's doing what, and somebody popped up that I was like, I love that show. I want to work with those people. And afterwards, I just kind of reached out to him on the community slack and was like, Hey, I'm totally using Zacks what you're gonna learn in Zach's class on you, but I love the show and did all that and he was like, Yo, let's meet for him. So I think being specific about what you want to work on helps, because then you are narrowing your focus, and it isn't so much that just like throwing spaghetti at the wall. And I think it makes it more comfortable in those initial cold outreaches. Because you you have feelings about you know, the show itself or the material so you can that can connect with it. Which helps. And I feel like I lost the plot.

Zack Arnold

Yeah, no, I You didn't lose the plot at all. And I'm just gonna double down on this is that a core part of the strategy that I teach is that your outreach has to be genuine and authentic, if it's just because I want a job. And I could say, I really like your show congrats on your Emmy, right that that stuff doesn't work. But if something resonates with you, and you know what you want to do, you can be very clear in your story about here's why your work resonated with me, here's how it connects with my hero's journey, because I'm on my own journey. And I'm going to be a little bit vulnerable. Here's where I'm stuck right now, something tells me that maybe you were stuck in a similar place. And you might be a person that I could reach out to with a question or two, like just that alone, those three components having value having a clear story and having a clear ask, make all the difference in the world. And I know that you've I don't know how many, or how few of you scheduled very, very few hot seats. However, my guess is if I looked at attendance records, you might have the highest attendance record of any office hours participant in four years, because you're always there. You're all in the background. And you're totally a lurker, right, but I'm like, Oh, good. Malinda is here today. So even though we never actually see each other, it's just like, Oh, great. She's here again today. So I always see the name and the list. And I know you're gonna be lurker. And I'm not going to call you out Well, every once in a while I do. But for the most part, I don't and I just like to be, but the the importance of just being there and being present, you can see, and you can attest to the fact that if people come into this, especially somebody that might not have gone through the class, they're self guided, they schedule a hot seat. And one of two things happens the very first week they schedule it, either I've got this email, and I want you to pick it apart, or can you look at my resume. So you can say firsthand that what always happens is within about five minutes, we realize that you're on step 17. And you need to be on step one, because you have no idea what you want to do with your life. You think you need to change the fonts on your resume or the order of your credits, but you have no clue what your goals are, which goes back to you saying that the very beginning of the process, what am I actually want to do? Because if I just say, oh, I want to work in scripted, well, you could have ended up through some connection from somebody at a bowling mixer or whatever, being an editor on a multi camera sitcom. You're an editor in scripted, but is that any more fulfilling the what you're doing an unscripted.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Right, yeah. And, you know, I also tried to keep it specific to I was really looking for people who had made that transition from unscripted to scripted without being an assist, or maybe only one or two seasons, or one or two shows. And so with a couple people about, you know how they made that transition, even if they did take that step back. And part of it was also being you know, like the idea of being very clear if you are going to take that assess position that I am trying to get in the room with this group of people because I want to work on this show, or this type of show with this group of people. But I don't want to be an assist. So if I take this job, I'm not saying I want to co editor credit right away, but just so you know that like I'm trying to get in the room and make these other connections with the showrunner or other editors and then hopefully be able to move up within your team because I want to work for this team. Like there were a couple Like, like I said, a positions that kind of came up over the last couple years on like, like what we do in the shadows. And I was like, You know what I would kill to be a part of that group, I'm gonna send my resume. And even though I'm unqualified, then you also hear a lot. Well, you're not really qualified to be an A, I'm like, Yeah, I know, because I haven't done it in 13 years. But like, you know that with something like that, I was like, I would kill to be a part of this group, and have these editors know me on a day to day basis. So would I take a step back for a show like that? Yes. Would I take a step back for? Maybe like, NCIS? Or something like that? No, because that's not even like the wheelhouse that I want to be in. It's hard to make that I think, line in the sand sometimes, because you do want to just kind of grab on to whatever you can. And sometimes, you know, and sometimes you I mean, I feel like if I had gotten offered an NCIS editor position, I probably would have taken it because it would have been like, it's something and then I'll next season, I'll move on from there. But at least I have that credit. But yeah, maybe not as an assist. So you'd have to kind of pick your battles. And I think, you know, and I did contemplate it, there were times where I was like, Oh, my God, it's never gonna happen. Maybe I should just do like the master the workflow and and try that route. But you don't know how long that route is going to take either. So it's, it's a risk either way.

Zack Arnold

Yeah, there's there's no light at the end of the tunnel, where and I talked about this all the time with, if you want to be a brain surgeon, well, you can go on Google. And it will tell you exactly pretty much the amount of months it's going to take to become a brain surgeon. It's incredibly complex. And it's incredibly challenging. But it's also really simple. Follow the following seven steps for this many years, meet these guidelines, and YouTube can be a brain surgeon, right doesn't work that way to be an assistant editor or an editor in television at all. It could take you a year, it could take you 18 years, right? Go back and listen to the episode of Kelly Dixon. Right? One of the biggest names in editing movie and features and TV, she's like, I did this for 18 years before somebody gave me a shot, you just don't know. And it makes it so much harder to say, well, if I knew this was going to happen a year from now, of course, I'm going to turn down 80 jobs, and I'm going to weather the storm. But I don't know if it's ever going to happen. So should I settle. And if your bank account says you need a job, there's no shame in taking a paycheck job. But I just hate it when people settle. Because they're afraid that they can't make it happen or it's not going to. Because if you just continue to persevere and you put in the work, I see this happen over and over and over. But it's not easy. It's very, very hard, difficult work. And I think that one of the things that really, it didn't make it easy, but it made it easier for you was the level of specificity that you had even before you started to reach out. So I've actually gone back into the archives, and I have the actual exercise that I went through with you to help me decide what is it that I actually want to do rather than I'll do anything I just want to work in scripted. So this process has been refined a little bit better than it was back on January 21 of 2020. But I'd asked you and the other students, I said, what are some of your dream projects, and you want me to give it to I can't believe how good my notes are, by the way. I'm like, Whoa, I can't believe

Malinda Zehner Guerra

I think I have my notes.

Zack Arnold

But I'm gonna give you the projects that we broke down and I'm going to take you through the same exercise that we went through back then because this has been a game changer for so many students. So I asked you if you could crawl across broken glass, what are some shows you want to cut? You said Ozark, Sharp Objects, When They See Us, Glow, Schitt's Creek, Better Call Saul, Barry and Insecure. I'm assuming this is the same Malinda Correct. I didn't get the wrong notes. It sounds like that sounds right. So if you were to just look at that, on the surface, most people would categorize it as well. It's TV or it's drama versus comedy or it's 30 minute versus one hour. But there's a lot more nuance to it. So we started to break it down and go even deeper. So let's do this again. I'm curious to see if your answer is going to be the same now as it was three years ago. Let's look at these and I'm gonna say them again Ozark, Sharp Objects, When They See Us, Glow, Schitt's Creek, Better Call Saul, Barry and Insecure? What are the deeper themes that resonate across multiple genres and formats? What do you see as the patterns?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

A lot of them are darker comedies a lot are female driven shows, which I think is still tend to lean in to. And for me, I think I knew this then and I still feel this way to you know, people like oh, do you want to do features and I really like right now, who knows, maybe I'll do features down the road. But I really like sitting with characters for a longer period of time and really getting to live with them. So they're all a little bit higher end streaming shows to where you're kind of getting, getting the live in those characters a little bit more, but a lot of them are there. They're dark, they're character driven, rip glow. There are a lot of females event as well.

Zack Arnold

So it's funny that I believe at least two of those, maybe more of at least two of them are HBO shows, which I find funny given where you ended up. But I say funny because it wasn't a coincidence, either. You were led in that direction based on going through an exercise similar to this and getting clarity. So some of my notes that I have from back then which are eerily similar, you said, Well, I like my drama with a little bit of comedy. That was definitely one of them. But another one that you did mention today that I think is really important is finding the similarities. In the characters. You mentioned that you like character driven, serialized stories where you can really sit with them for episodes and months and even years. And you said that I'm really interested in complex, quirky characters that are struggling to navigate life, and do the best that they can themselves with larger themes about society and relationships. How deep is that?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

That I feel like you probably tweak that a little bit because that sounds too smart.

Zack Arnold

I take no, I take pretty crappy notes. So pretty much verbatim and they've got about 100 typos in them. So my guess I don't have enough time to think about taking notes. I just dictate I'm the worst court reporter ever and I just put a bunch of stuff on my notes. But the the the importance of this is that if we were to just say well, Ozark and Schitt's Creek, well, there's there's no similarities. You're saying Do you want to work in 30 Minute Comedy? Or do you want to work in dark premium one hour drama? You got to pick one? Both? Yeah, but the point is that if you find those similarities, you now have transferable skills, where you can say there are certain things about the characters on Schitt's Creek, for example, that could be transferred to the way the performances or characters are done or written on a show like Ozark. Or you look at now the reason I bring this up is look at the two most recent credits on your resume, black lady sketch show and American Horror Story on paper. That makes no sense. But the reason I bring it up is because of this fear of being pigeonholed. And I think you're one of those that when you look at such a diverse resume, the unscripted world, and then you look at the indie stuff that you did in the interim, to make the transition. Now, as soon as you're in the high end, premium, scripted world, immediately, it's impossible to pigeonhole you. So that seems to be a very career long trend for you. And what I'm curious about is how conscious are you of avoiding it versus Well, it's just kind of happened that way. And I got lucky,

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Definitely conscious of it, as in unscripted for sure there, you know, I spent a long time in the dark, you follow over at buna Moray, I was there for like three years straight, which was amazing, because you never had to worry about a job. They just put you from show to show to show to show. But after a few years of that you're like I've been cutting the same thing. I don't want to only be you know a doc you follow person. So I did. I think that's when I was then at went to make an afraid so I was having the like, you know, survival travel adventure, I had to work pretty hard to get into competition shows and stuff. So I definitely made a conscious effort to not only cut one thing in unscripted and that is also my goal in my transition to scripted that I want to be able to cut both like and as much as as fun as cutting. Scott's sketch comedy is the fast pace and the jokes and all that it's great. But sometimes, you know, I do also want to be able to be in those like darker dramas, those more serious things with a little more breathing room. And just very fortunate that these two shows have come back to back like this, that I can kind of be like, No, I have two different things here. Like, I can do comedy and I can do drama. So but that is definitely a thought and something that going forward. I am also looking at to like where to not only be doing one thing, because you know, we watch different things and you're and like you said like what's the difference between Oza or what are the similarities between Ozarks and Schitt's Creek? Well, they're both like families that are kind of dysfunctional, falling apart thing. You know, their worlds are crumbling one just happens to be dealing with a Mexican cartel and people die every day. And one just happens to be, you know, living in a motel in Canada. So they're similar. You know, if you really dig, dig deep, but it's just how you present them. Yeah, but yeah, definitely conscious in, in not wanting to be pigeonholed no matter what I'm doing so

Zack Arnold

Right. And one thing that I think you already know better of that, I want to make sure we highlight. You already know my feelings on this, but I want to get your perspective on it. You already know how I feel about people being pigeonholed, and I instead say you don't get pigeonholed, you pigeonhole yourself and you pigeonhole yourself by saying yes to the same thing over and over and over. You have nobody to blame but you if you're pigeon holed because it's as simple as saying yes to the next thing that's just like the previous thing. But given all of that the kind of the, the deeper fear or the the deeper emotion that goes to this point where you are even in your career now, I don't know if you experienced this or not. But it's this thought of Who do you think you are saying no to things, when you should just be thankful that you're getting any scripted work? If you ever had that thought of like, just just stay in your lane? And who do you think you are? You've got a job, you should take it. Like, I bet that assistant editor gig you're like, Who do we think am I? I am to say no to this right now.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Oh, yeah. And I really, like wrestled with it. And, you know, talked with my husband about it, like, I have this chant, like this opportunity. And the editor was really great, you know, and knew that. I was hoping to launch that into cutting. And he was cool with that. But I was just like, you know, I got, I feel like, I have to stick to my guns at least a little while longer. And when I emailed him back, and I was like, I, I may kick myself in the butt for this, and but I'm gonna, I'm gonna say, No, I think I need to stick out this route. And he was like, I'm actually glad you said that, you know, he, he was like, I think you should, too. And then, you know, a couple months later, when I was like, likely discussions coming out, and he was like, See, I knew, I knew you could do it. So and I think that's, you know, part of it, too, is also being honest with people about what you want to do. And, and if you are thinking about taking that assist route, that, you know, where we all want to root for each other. I think we forget that because we do feel like in this industry, they do such a good job of pitting us against each other, that there's always somebody to replace you. And there is, you know, there's always somebody to take your spot if you don't want it. But you have to you have to advocate for yourself, too. And that, that can just be like, I'm tired of cutting this type of show, I'm going to try and do something different. And you may hear no, which, you know, it was shocking. You're like, but I cut this, I can cut that. Like, oh, you know, you don't have shiny floor show experience. I was like, what? Like, but it's cutting packages and then live and, okay, I don't have shiny floors or experience. You know, so it's, you get those no matter what, you know, either unscripted, scripted, people are going to tell you, you don't have done something. But you just have to, if you want it, you just have to keep pushing to. So it's like, okay, well, not this show. But the next one, I'll find another one who will take me or it may be take maybe it'll be season two, and then I'll be on it. You said no now, but come back around. And so yeah, you just have to keep plugging in that way.

Zack Arnold

Well, I want to play the alternate timeline game for a second. Speaking of this whole I, you know, was was thinking Oh, my God, I could be kicking myself for saying no to this AE job. Let's go back in time. And let's assume that you said yes. And now you've committed to being an AE and two months into this gig, you find out there's an editing chair with your name on and on black lady sketch. Oh, let's talk about kicking yourself now. Because this is the situation that scares everybody when they're in that position. So let's look at that side of it. How do you think through that? Because I would assume that was one of your fears? Is if I say yes, there are other things I have to say no to or did you go through that thought process as you were deliberating this?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Yes, yes. And sketch show came up shortly thereafter. But I was actually like, waiting to for an interview at another production company with Ryan Murphy. But you know, which it actually took six months to finally get that interview. But I've been kind of playing email tag with the assistant over setting up this interview. And that wasn't coming through, and this other offer and I was like, Ah, I don't know what to do. You know, this interview never does, it hasn't materialized and it took six months to actually happen. But I was like, You know what, I just have to hold out and I didn't, because the the guy who was offering me the assist position was so lovely. And even though he knew like, I also feel like if I had been given the opportunity, I would have had to be like, I'm leaving. And at that point, you know, they would have been shooting and that would have put him definitely in the lurch. You know, because this was at the time when assists were, were in scarce scarcity, because we were super busy at the end of last summer beginning of the fall before everything went sideways. So it wasn't like an easy fill. I'm sure it would have been but yeah, I would not have thought of If I had had to make that decision to be like, Oh, now this came up after like two weeks after I agreed to do this for you. And that was part of the thought process. So I didn't want to burn that professional bridge as well. So,

Zack Arnold

Yeah, that's a big consideration. And all of these a lot of people there, you've heard me say this 1000 times as being my number one lurker. But so many people get caught in the game of checkers. So I don't know, like, I guess I could take it for a couple of months. And if something comes along, I'll just bounce to the next thing. But people remember that. And if you're playing a game of chess, and it's about relationships, even though that person might have even been supportive, at the end of the day, they're going to remember that you left them in a place where we're two months into shooting, and it's a shit show, and I'm working on three episodes, and I'm training a new assistant editor, it doesn't leave a good taste in person's mouth. So even if you're not burning a bridge, it's still something that changes the complexity or the tone of that relationship, such that let's say that six months or a year from now, that editor knows of another editing chair on your show, even though you said no, my guess is and you can correct me if I'm wrong, they actually think more highly of you for saying no, as an assistant, they probably recommend you more highly as an editor versus well. We already brought her on, and she bailed on us. And like that, those are the kinds of considerations that most people aren't thinking about. They're just thinking about, I gotta get in the chair, but they're not thinking longer term.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Yeah, definitely. And I mean, I will say, I was on a unscripted show, when Black Lady sketch show came up, and I was like, sorry, guys gotta bounce. But you know, at that point, the two are not equal.

Zack Arnold

Yeah. And then that's where, if you're working with the right people, the hope is their responses. That's awesome. Good luck, we'll figure it out. Right, because the they get it, they know how many people in the unscripted world are trying to make that transition. So if you're surrounded by the right people, like, we can't compete with that good for you, congratulations, we'll figure it out. I don't, I don't know how it all went down. But you're right. It's just it's not, you know, different variations of apples, you know, it's totally apples versus oranges. And the difference between the value of the two for your career trajectory, every once in a while, you're going to have to make that choice. But committing to two months of being an AE that you didn't kind of really want to be anyway. And then the first chance comes along to leave like that's, that's going to scorch some earth. So you made the tougher choice, bigger picture, by avoiding the more comfortable choice in the short term. And clearly, in hindsight, you know, didn't even require much hindsight at all. But clearly, it all worked out. So yeah, I'm very happy about that. So now I want to actually break down some of the details of how the connections were made. And the strategies used, because we know that you spent some time really digging into what are the shows that are creatively meaningful to me? What are some of the themes without going into specific names that would have helped you fill out a spreadsheet and identify, these are the people I need to surround myself with those that are doing now what I want to be doing next. But that didn't happen in three weeks, it's actually happened for some of my students in less than three weeks. But for you, this was a period of years, which is a lot more common. Walk me through whatever pieces you want to put together of the jigsaw puzzle that's jumping from this connection to this connection to this connection that answers the question, How did you actually end up on of all unscripted or of all scripted shows? One of the top scripted Emmy winning shows on premium cable like, how did that actually happen? Ground level?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Well, I will say, I'm fortunate because I have people in my network, who were ahead of me that I had worked with in unscripted who had made that jump. And so I had some warm connections that I was able to leverage that got me on both of these shows. But you know, even saying that, like, it took several years of, you know, saying, Oh, hey, you know, I'm doing I'm doing these indie films, I'm trying to make the jump into scripted, okay, great. And keeping those relationships alive. And, you know, hoping that I, you know, had one friend who passed my resume along maybe five or six times in, in 2022. And, you know, didn't, didn't get an interview or gotten interviewed and get the job. And then finally, you know, it finally hit. So I was lucky that I was able to use some of my already existing network because I did have those people just a little bit ahead of me who had made that jump from unscripted to scripted. And they, you know, our I feel like also kind of in a trailblazing way were ones who were able to do it without going back to assisting I think, I think one person assisted for like one episode on a show. And then at the same time, I was also trying to find those people that and you know, I will Say I am not I was not the most outgoing or gregarious cold outreach, or I did reach out to a lot of people within the Optimizer community who worked on shows that I liked, or who had made that jump. So I started, you know, working that connection, yes, it was a cold connection, or cold outreach, when I would email them based on the shows that I knew they had worked on. But, you know, we're all we're all in a little group. And we know, we're also here to, like, help each other. So that makes it great that you could be like, Oh, hey, I'm also in the Optimizer community. And I saw you worked on this, and I love that show. And, you know, see, you've done XYZ, and now you're here, you know, this is my journey, this is where I'm at. And I'd love to get some of your experience or how you, you did that as well. So, and I know I'm gonna have to like on my to do list is definitely like work on my new email outreach list. Because things have changed since then, in the last few months, to make those new connections on other shows that I would want to work on the I think just it was finding the people that were on shows that I wanted to work on. And then also, if I think it helps to, if there's, you also know somebody else, I was kind of kind of trying to keep the things small, like, oh, I also know, someone so who you've worked with, on the show, or, you know, I've even had friends who were an actor on a show. And they knew like this person and made those kinds of connections backwards, like that way.

Zack Arnold

The couple of things that I want to pull out are one of the words you use that I think you use strategically without realizing you did it is you said I was very fortunate to have these people in my existing network that had blazed the trail what you didn't say was, I was lucky. Because there's a difference between those two. And you know, you know, how I feel about people that describe all their circumstances, and what happens because of luck. It's lucky that you got on a black lady sketch show, if you put in absolutely no effort to reach out to people that you already knew. And you're just plugging away on your shiny floor competition show you haven't reached out to one person in year. They're like, hey, Malinda, remember me? We worked together seven years ago, there's a chair with your name on on a black lady sketch. Oh, do you want it that fell in your lap boy, was that ready. But what I want to dig into deeper is not just there were these people that blaze the trail, and there were warm connections, but how you maintained and enrich those relationships. Because as you know, one of the most common topics we talk about is not cold outreach, because frankly, that's really simple. There's a formula, you follow it, you fill in the blank, done, it's like Mad Libs for outreach. Warm outreach is way more complex. And as you know, most of our students come to me saying I got this relationship. I know this person I worked with him before, how do I approach the outreach? So how were you able to navigate these warm relationships to be able to leverage what ended up being this job? That was the perfect fit for you? Because none of it was an accident.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Right. No, I think one thing that I used the indie features I was working on and the web series, so that that was always something great to be able to put on social media, like oh, you know, this is dropping, even if it's on just like to be or whatever. So that people could see that I was working in scripted, even if it wasn't a big a project or a release. So there was always, you know, using that to be able to be say, like, Hey, I'm doing this. And then also just reach it, like connecting with them. You know, when a black lady sketch show came out, and they, you know, my, my friend was on it, and season two, like, oh my god, this is amazing. Like, congratulations, I can't wait to watch it. And, you know, or watching it and being like this sketch, I died. And keeping those friendships. And then you know, and also being like, and I'm also doing this or like, and then being like, I'm trying to make the thing I've been doing this and this. Again, I'd love to talk to you about like your experience going from, you know, when we were cutting our crappy go shows together, like, in the last few years or but since the last time I saw you, like, how did you bridge that gap? Because I'm trying to do that myself. So I think it helps i For me, I feel like it helps having something to talk about either something that they just did. Or I also have this thing so I can show you or talk about it. And then again, just add like being like, you know, we were both we were sharing an edit bay wall, like how did you get from there there? Because I just want to follow behind you and and just asking and I think you know, and that that can be kind of the hardest part with people that you know I think is is actually saying like, hey, because you do feel like you don't in any outreach cold or warm, you don't want to feel like I'm just asking you like, hey, I want a job. It's those moments of, of keeping like a friendly connection, and not talking about work or like, oh my god, your dog is so cute, I love his little face, like, or your vacation look great. Finding those ways, especially with a warm one to kind of keep those friendships open and natural, where, especially if you haven't seen someone a while you might have let that slide. And not. But also you have to say like, this is what I want. This is this is my goal. And I'm not necessarily asking you to help me, but like, I'm asking for knowledge and information so that I can help myself. And I think maybe that's kind of the difference and maybe and how you have to feel about it, like I just want you to to inform me. So then I can, can imitate what you've done or try those similar things. I'm not asking necessarily asking you to help me if you pass my resume along, that would be amazing. But I can at least try and imitate what you've done because it worked for you. And then you know, science, it can be you can replicate it, and then it's a real thing. So.

Zack Arnold

Yeah, the hugely important distinction that I think you pointed out so eloquently, is it's not helped me, it's helped me to help myself, it's show me what I'm willing to do the work I will put in the work. I'm just unclear what to do next, you've walked a very similar path, when you ran into the same obstacle, what did you do, and if you share with me that information, I will take the action and I will help myself, I just don't know how that's the difference between and you use a very key word, where you said that when you were reaching out, you were maintaining friendships, you didn't say that I was keeping my contacts warm, right? Or I was, you know, keeping I was maintaining my connections, I hate all those phrases, you're maintaining your friendships, you're just real people. And what I often say is that when there's an opportunity available, it's not always about I need to find the most qualified candidate, like you take the we'll get into this party in a second. But if I were to step into this position, and we were looking for an editor on Cobra Kai, I don't have this perfectly organized list of resumes. And everybody knows in the past that's broken down by criteria and drop down menus in spreadsheets. It's to who's a good fit that I talked to in the last three months that I remember their name, oh, yeah, I should recommend this person. So it's not always about being the best candidate. It's about always being the most recent one, which is why I'm maintaining these friendships, I would assume in some way, shape or form when the chair came along, or like, oh, we should talk to Malinda. So am I am I totally off base and that that's how the black lady sketch? Oh, conversation started?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Yes, yes, absolutely. And my friend had been, and she'd been passing my resume along, like I said, probably like, five or six times over the year between black lady sketch of season three that I did not get, and season four that I did get, you know, she would pass my resume past my resume. Like here, I would get an interview, I would get nothing. But you know, it was one of those things where she was always like, Are you available? Are you interested in this? Are you available? Like our I can't take this, um, send me your resume, like I can pass it in so and yeah, it I think it helps you that we've worked together before so she also knew how I am to work with it was I was a reliable suggestion as opposed to being somebody that we hadn't worked with so you know, that you feel secure this person isn't going to you know, show up and be a crazy person wife, which I think you know why there's kind of so important to even those cold outreaches that you have to kind of think that you're going to cultivate them for a while so that they can really know who you are as a person as well if they if they haven't worked with you before because it's always you know, you part of your I guess you know street cred or your you know, value you don't want to pass along just anybody's resume because if the person you send in and they hire is a nightmare that is only going to look bad on you so and then like that lowers your standard as well with you know, like oh well they sent me this like lunatic last time. You can't trust their judgment anymore. So I think you know, it is turning cold relationships into warmer ones so that people feel comfortable passing it on and then you know, those relationships that are like more like coworkers or friendships to kind of keep them alive and and reach out in that way. And I know like personally even with my like, friends, you know, outside of work, I forgot to like reach out or text or email. So it is it is something like That is a muscle and it's a habit you really have to create to remember to drop those little like, even if it's just like, oh, commenting on somebody's Instagram post or something so that you do pop up in their, in their world, but not even like, in a work way. But you do have to remember to because we can get so sucked into our jobs. And you know, we work so long. And then at the end of the day, you barely talk to the people like, unless they're right in your vicinity. And like now with working from home, like do I even leave the house? No, sometimes I don't. So you have to really like, I know, I do remember to like, reach out to people, even if it's in a small way. Because you Oh, I always like hearing from people. And you forget that people like, as much as you like having somebody comment on a post or reach out and say hi, other people like that, too. Like.

Zack Arnold

Yeah, well that that lack of a habits that you're talking about is what often leads to the following group message. Hey, everybody, I'm just about to wrap my show at the end of the week. If anybody knows of any projects, I'm looking right now I need to find my next gig hope you're all doing well resume attached because there is no habit. It's I network when I'm unemployed, the best time to network is when you're gainfully employed, because then there really is no ulterior motive. It's just want to chat with you and catch up, see how was your project going or I saw the latest season of your show, you're brilliant, whatever it is, that muscle often makes the difference between how easy it is to get the job after the unemployment ends, and gets people out of that vicious cycle of I only network when I'm desperate and unemployed, which is the worst time to build your network. And ultimately, like you said, the two words that I think are so important for people to understand is ultimately the goals are building trust, and creating comfort. If they trust you can do the job and they're comfortable with you, boom, they'll pass you along. So in this situation, you got to that point where somebody said, you have to look at Malinda's resume, and you have to meet with her. But that's where the networking ends. Which brings us to the million dollar question. When you sat down in the chair. And you're talking to the person that's the gatekeeper that makes the decision. How do you address the elephant in the room, which is not only is this scripted? This is one of the most high profile, award winning sketch show comedies on one of the most premium brands, why should I take a chance on you? A mutual connection isn't enough to overcome that gap. So What story did you tell that they could take a chance on you?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Well, I think that is where my having a lot of different genres of unscripted came in to play. I you know, I've cut I just kind of finished a semi scripted kind of prank show. So it was very, you know, there was like one guy who was real and the rest were all actors. So in that kind of Borat vein, so I had just done a reality show on that. So like, oh my god, I just caught all this comedy, even though it was unscripted with this guy who's normally writes for so and so. And then I had also just finished a web series, which was a comedic web series. And so you know, when I had that interview, and it was like, What have you been up to this year? I can be like, well, this is the comedy, I cut this comedy, I cut this comedy. I did that. So I had something to show that worked with what they did, right. And I had that comedy experience. I had that kind of improv II stuff going on. So I could say, oh, I just did this. And then I've also in the past done X, Y and Z, which was definitely comedic. So you know, I think it also wherever you are right now, even if it is like in the unscripted or you're assisting like if you're in the not in the genre you want to be in or you don't have experience in that genre, like that is what you do need to find so that when you get that chance, you can be like no, I've lived in this world. I know what this is, which I think helped that I had, you know, I literally just come off of semi scripted prank show and had cut this web series that it was like okay, she's in our world right now. Wait till we kick her ass when she sees what really is going on. But yeah, so I think that helped that I was also like, you know, and then even with you know, American horror stories coming off a black lady sketch Oh, it doesn't seem like that would make sense. But I was also working on like after that wrapped I took a short job on a paranormal ghost hunting show and I've done a bunch of paranormal and ghost shows and a couple of the Indies things I did were horror suspense anyway, so I could be like, Oh, well, yeah, just finish the sketch show. But I also have a ton of like, experience in this like thriller suspense ghosty vein as well. So it's, it's not a leap to take this person who just did a comedy and to come and cut your horror show, you know, I feel like I have enough of those different genres in my back pocket, even if it's in unscripted that I can say like, oh, no, I know how to do this. It's just like, slightly different format, which helps. And I think that's, that's the confidence that like just working on a bunch of different stuff. I can, I know I can do it, because I've done it in the past, even if it's like, structurally different.

Zack Arnold

Yeah, so breaking that down. As you know, it's something we talk about during office hours in classes all the time, is that you are essentially saying, I already have all the transferable skills. On paper, I don't have the experience, but all the skills that you are looking for, and more importantly, the problems that you're going to have creatively, I've solved all the problems. Whereas the mindset so often is, and I don't think you're ever in this space. But I hear a multitude of people, when they're making a career transition, they always say, Ah, but I have to start over, you're not starting over, you have years or decades of experience solving problems, you just have to learn how to reshape your story. So you could tell the story, all those creative problems you have, I've solved those slightly different genres, slightly different medium, but I understand the problems and I can solve them. That's what gives people the comfort and the trust. They're like, alright, well, that coupled was such a high recommendation from somebody we trust implicitly. All right, let's give it a shot. Let's try it out, then it's your opportunity to say, see, I can do this now you've got the experience and the skills. So yeah, you've been able to navigate that and unscripted, you've applied that skill now to the scripted world, and who knows what type of project or genre or whatever it's going to lead you to next. But I have no fear of you ever coming to me on a hot seat saying I'm pigeonholed. What do I do? Like I don't see that ever being a conversation that we have, because you have those skills to definitely navigate all these different avenues. So

Malinda Zehner Guerra

I was the one thing I tried to I tried to load my basket with all the different tricks that I could. So that I have Yeah, I have something be like, Oh, no, this is kind of similar to what you're asking for. It's not the exact same, but it's pretty similar,

Zack Arnold

Right. Yeah. So I love that. Yeah. So last question, you may already know, because I've asked it before, not of every guest. But ask it of a lot of them. We're gonna go back into time traveling mode. And you're going to jump in a time machine. And we're going to talk to Malinda in different takes on time in 2019. And she is just fed up with working and unscripted and doing things that are just sucking her soul. Everybody's telling her what you can't make the transition. It doesn't work this way. You got to stay in your lane, or you got to become an assistant. What is the advice that you're gonna give to Malinda in 2019 when she hit the wall?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

I mean, hang in there, like cat meme? Definitely. Yeah, I think patience, which is something I'm not good at that, yeah, it takes time, and you have to stick to your guns and, and keep doing, you know, at the same time, as much as some of those like, indie projects sucked, are frustrating, you know, they are worth it, in the end to have something like to show I think that's, it made me feel less helpless, when I could be like, No, I, I have done this, it's just not on the scale, like you are maybe looking for, but I do have this experience, that none of that is futile. You know, and, and to also just, in the meantime, like, get on a couple of different genres of, of unscripted, keep changing things up so that you feel fresh, and like you are doing different things. And it will all kind of build to something. But yeah, a lot of times, it seems like it's not going to happen. And I would probably also say like, get on it a little bit more to though, because like I definitely pandemic, when during the pandemic, I kind of took my foot off the gas because I was like, nobody's working. It's all crazy out there. I don't know what's going on. And I was lucky enough to be working. Basically that whole time. I think I had like six weeks off. So you know, I was just I kind of like put my head down and was like, I'm just grateful for this job. And I'm going to keep going and then when things clear up, and it doesn't seem so awkward, then I'll get back to it. But if I had done it, and been more proactive during the pandemic and not found excuses to not do it to not network, maybe I would have been here a year ago as opposed to now so you know, it's like there's no perfect time. So now is the time as maybe as ridiculous as and try Does that sound like just jump? Yeah

Zack Arnold

Just just because it sounds like the perfect Instagram QUOTE CARD or cat meme doesn't mean that it's not also applicable. And I would without going any deeper into this, I would say that all the fears and uncertainties and madness that you are facing and early to mid 2020. We're just going through a repeat of exactly that right now, at least as of recording this. I don't know what it's going to be like when this actually releases. But I have a feeling it's not going to be all settled down on the world is back to normal. Whether I released this two weeks or six months from now, I'm pretty sure that what I'm saying will be evergreen and applicable. But for anybody that's thinking I just want to wait it out. I'm going to put my head in the sand wait for things go back to normal. It's that's not going to move you forward or get you anywhere and your your proof positive of that. So

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Yeah, definitely now is the time during the strike, seize that opportunity. Because a lot of people aren't working and and don't mind getting on a zoom for an hour and chatting. It's time to connect even more meeting for coffee or meet at the picket line like I don't know. Yeah, it might be that everybody's socializing at the picket lines.

Zack Arnold

I'm gonna be really sad if I release this in a year. And that's still applicable, but Well, we'll find out I'm not really sure when I release it, it'll still be applicable, unfortunately. But anyways, I'm really, really happy to finally have this conversation, which I knew was inevitable about four years ago, just every once in a while, check in the calendar, like the time to check in with Malinda and see what's going on. And I remember, I don't remember what exactly when it was, but it was just some little offhand comment about Yeah, I'm working on a black lady sketch. And I'm like, yep, there it is. Time for me to reach out it happened. couldn't have predicted the timing of it. But I knew that the outcome was coming. And now we're just gonna have to figure out when to schedule the community mastermind q&a, where all of my students can meet the Emmy winning editor of HBO and FX shows. So I think those days are closer than you may think.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Thank you. I mean, this was a goal. Like, you know, when I started your program last, like, I want to do well enough that Zack will have me on. So I can check that too. Like

Zack Arnold

There you go bucket list done. Well done.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Checking those boxes,

Zack Arnold

So I'm really happy that you came to me back in the day and happy that you stuck through it and always happy to see your name, and your camera and microphone off every Tuesday and Thursday morning, as we're workshopping everybody's challenges.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

I'm not that cute that early.

Zack Arnold

I get it, trust me if I could do it with my camera and my microphone off. I would too. But I somehow have to find a way to roll out of bed and be coherent at 8am, which for me is frankly impossible, but I find a way to do it. Yeah. But it's been an absolute pleasure to have you in the community and to work with you and can't thank you enough for your time today. So, got a question here. Really easy one, if anybody listening is inspired by your journey and they want to connect in network and PST anybody listening? Do not send your resume. But if somebody wants to connect with you and start a relationship, can they do so? And if so, how?

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Yes, best way would be I'm on Instagram at Malzane, M A L Z A N E. And you can also hit me up on my email would be malindaguerra16 M A L I N D A G U E R R A one six at Gmail. Yeah, I have two different last names. I'm still in an identity crisis after getting

Zack Arnold

Totally get it. That's a whole nother conversation. Another thing podcast but we'll make sure to get all that in the show notes. Make sure we'll have a link to your IMDB page so they can see all your variety of different credits. They can contact you but can't thank you enough for taking the time to chat with me today.

Malinda Zehner Guerra

Great. Thank you for having me.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai